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Interview with Ben Zuckerman & Leon Kolankiewicz, Part II

LK: In your experience as a professor at UCLA, were you able to bring discussion of population into the classroom, and if so, how was it received? You have been attacked in the pages of the Daily Bruin, UCLA’s campus newspaper. What was that like? On the UCLA campus, did you ever feel like you were behind “enemy lines?” I recall that some years ago, protestors even barged in on a class you were trying to teach.

BZ: Population generally does not enter into astronomy classes, but there are exceptions. In a Life in the Universe course I developed at UCLA (and at my previous university), I do give one lecture about exponential population growth. In my development of symposia for UCLA’s Institute of the Environment and in a team-taught honors course I developed on ethics and the environment, I did try to include a population component when appropriate.

In 1998 the Los Angeles Times published an opinion piece I wrote on immigration. A few students did not approve of my position and  attacked me in various ways. I was supported by every level of UCLA personnel, for which I am thankful. Much more recently (a few years ago) I was again attacked, this time in two opinion pieces (published a few months apart) in UCLA’s student newspaper. Thankfully the editors gave me an opportunity to respond to both attacks. Although it was painful at the time, in retrospect the attacks gave me a chance to present my views on immigration; this never would have happened otherwise given how shutdown honest, open debate can be on college campuses now.

LK: What level of immigration would you like to see for the United States in view of what you believe our population goals as a nation should be?

BZ: Various developed countries are currently, or will soon, experience population declines. Given our high per capita consumption levels, the U.S. is already overpopulated. For example, the population density (people per square mile) is larger in California than it is in the continent of Europe, plus the population growth rate is larger in California. The population of the U.S. has more than doubled during my lifetime. Immigration and fertility should be at levels that enable U.S. population stabilization and then a gradual decline.

LK: Would you describe yourself as an optimist or a pessimist on population, immigration, the environment and sustainability, or is this not even the proper way to frame your position on these interconnected issues?

BZ: Unfortunately, our species is largely out of control. During my lifetime world population has more than tripled. When measured by the total number of people added to the planet each year, this growth has shown no indication of slowing down. Population and consumption keep growing at the expense of the environment in general and biodiversity in particular. I fear that rational actions will not be taken and that only catastrophe, probably more than one, will end the carnage to the biosphere. I never suspected that worldwide catastrophes would happen during my lifetime. But we already have the effects of climate change kicking in faster than envisioned by many climate scientists, plus a global COVID-19 pandemic. Sadly, I expect that even together these catastrophes will not be sufficient to induce humanity to end its excessive ways.

LK: Ben, back in 1998 or thereabouts you sent me a signed copy of the book you had co-edited on whether intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe: Extraterrestrials: Where Are They? Inside the front cover, you wrote: “Leon, I love you man, and we’ve never even met!” Well, we did meet for the first time not long after that, and I just wanted to reiterate that the feeling is mutual. I have always been inspired by your intellect, bravery, passion and commitment, and it has been an honor to know and collaborate with you all these years on the most important challenge facing humanity: treating the one planet (including its many non-human inhabitants) in the cosmos that we know for a fact does support life as a home rather than exploiting it as a mere source of resources and a dumping ground for our wastes.

April 2020

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